Ray digs into the Maine Attorney General's statement giving discretion to the people supposedly responsible for reporting illegal sexual activity among children.
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About Me
- Ray Richardson
- I live in Westbrook with my wonderful wife Dee Dee and our four children. We have been residents of Maine for a little over 22 years, moving here from Florida in 1985.
22 comments:
I am not saying you want to prosecute 12 year olds for having consensual sex with each other.
I do not understand why you want to elevate it to the state dhhs level.
I know you don't but I do believe the school nurse and guidance office upon finding this behavior out from a 12 year old who come in their office, have the knowledge, training and resources to deal with this and involve parents.
As you know when things get elevated to the dhhs level, sometimes it takes a life of its own and the child can suffer more than necessary. You just need to have faith in the local people instead of trying to take away their ability to deal with chidren problems.
I am surprised that you who have such a dim view of our state govt's ability to do anything right, would want them involved in a local issue like this.
Don't forget we live in a state where, first cousins can marry.
Go figure
Ray
Read page 8 also.
Kansas is considered a conservative state don't you think
As with any opinion, comparisons are made with similar situations. Since none was found in Maine, our AG office looked at other states.
Ray instead of trying to elevate this type of thing to the state level, be a proponent of giving the schools the tools you think they need to try to help children make wise choices, and by tools I don't mean make them say a prayer every morning in school. Oh, that would be called welfare probably by the right,Can't have that, better punish instead.
Bruce,
I want the District Attorney to be involved. They have great descretion as to what they choose to do.
I am very concerned about some of the cultural issues occuring in Maine that do not meet the American standard. The District Attorney's Office has the resources to fully investigate and determine what is in the best interest of the child. This law was specifically crafted to avoid un-qualified individuals who lack the resources for appropriate investigative efforts to use their descretion in making such a decision.
For the AG's office on page six to determine that not all sexual activity involving an under-age child is detrimental to their well-being is an outrage.
Just because a child is not raped does not mean that an un-calculated harm is not being done.
Girls who are sexually active at this age overwhelmingly end up pregnant while in their teens and suffer enormous self confidence issues.
We have to keep in mind that we are talking about children here, not young adults. These are kids, who the courts have decided do not have minds fully developed enough to fully understand the rights and the wrongs of their actions at this age, therefore we do not prosecute them as adults, even though they sometimes commit adult crimes.
I am so very disappointed at the lack of consistency by the top law enforcement agency in Maine.
And no Bruce, I do not have faith that a school nurse is fully trained enough to determine whether a child's long-term well-being is being harmed. That is not what their training is for.
The DA's have the resources to investigate and the resources to help a child work through such an issue.
I believe this report was written with an outcome already decided and nineteen pages to prop up someone's fading political career.
Your second response is so typical.
I am not looking to punish these kids. I want them to get help before their lives are ruined.
If a child is being abused, should we leave them in the situation so an agenda can be supported.
This law was designed to protect children, from monsters or from other situations that harm their well-being.
The schools need to educate. They do not need more tools. They need to do their job. If a mandatory reporter is confronted with a situation, they should report it as required by law.
We are not giving our children the quality education they need and deserve because we are trying to do so many things that are outside of the scope of public education. This just adds yet another burden to the role of the school, a school that does not have the resources to handle.
By the way, where in this report did the AG say the resources were to come from to give the mandatory reporter the necessary tools to make such a decision?
They didn't because they are not interested in that aspect of this. They are making a political statement in support of Rowe and his wife.
We already have folks looking for a case so this can be challenged in the court and overturned.
It is disagraceful and I am very surprised you would be willing to support such a decision that empowers the outright neglect of children in danger.
Of course, why should I expect any different from this attorney general's office? Rowe kept Cameron on payroll for six months, knowing the content of the computer and only dismissed him when the media put some heat on him publicly.
Please don't tell me about process. I could have bought that if an event had occured, legal event, that would have given Rowe grounds for dismissal and then he acted.
Instead, he acted because of the outrage brought on by media coverage.
Ray said
"I am very concerned about some of the cultural issues occuring in Maine that do not meet the American standard".
What is this "American Standard"?
We disagree, I have faith in the school nurse and guidance office.
You don't.I think the communities can handle the isues locally. You want tho spend state tax money and time on the issue. Don't forget our state is broke as you keep telling us, let Portland handle Portland.
You make this sound like we have an epidemic in Portland. It is more rare than you would like everyone to believe.
I would hope that a young child who is having sex with a peer and is thinking that he or she is making a mistake, will come to the nurse or guidance officer without the fear that they are going to get rported to the AG and possibly put in foster care. The one who doesn't think they are making a mistake are not going to come forward anyway.
What is your foundation for your baseless statement, "It is more rare than you would like everyone to believe."
I love it when people who do not have children have all the answers about children.
First, they are not reporting. That is against the law and they should be fined as the law provides.
Second, children talk. I talk with my kids all the time. I am aware of what goes on in their school. Their friends as constantly over at my house and they talk about these things.
Third, the state has already appropriated money for the AG's office. You statement is ridiculous. That is like saying, it costs money to prosecute a rape or a murder, therefore don't.
Lastly, it is the law. Even if the AG's interpetation stands, it was just issued. Do you believe it is okay for people in a position of public trust to simply ignore laws they do not agree with?
Your responses are the typical right wing holier than though ones.
People without children do not have all the answers, but people with chidren don't either.
Remember there are no licnses issued or tests taken to have children.
You are the one who has all the answers. short and sweet. report the litle....s and let the courts deal with them
You are basing your knowledge of how rampant this sex is based on what your kids and their friends are telling you?
I am basing it on the statements last year by the school official on how rare it was that the girls were asking for the pill.
Oh the pill, remember , that is where this whole thing got started.
Good luck with the proposed
According to the AG they are not ignoring the laws. The ag says they have discretion. You just do not want to accept that,because it goes against your feelings.
Good luck
Actually, once again, you are wrong. The District Attorneys that I have spoken with extensively do not believe there is descretion.
My arguements in this discussion are based on feelings, they are based on conversations with school kids, conversations with public school employees and conversations with Kind Middle School employees.
You are so willing to accept the words of Amanda Rowe because you accept her politics. This person, along with others at King according to the District Attorney, have not filed these mandatory reports .... this occured before the AG's ruling.
IF they could not be trusted to carry out their duty under the law regarding mandatory reporting because they did not agree with it, I do not believe their information regarding kids asking for the pill is any more reliable. Keep in mind, this is confidential and therefore none of us can prove it. Great system we have.
It means they decided they were above the law and becuase it was a law they did not agree with, they decided not to follow it.
The District Attorney in Cumberland County is the one that said these reports were not filed, not me.
I know you want to make this political, but it is not political for me. It is what is best for the well-being of the children in this state.
By the way, as you attempt to make this political, just how many people have you personally talked to that are involved in what happened at King. Last fall, I spent a lot of time talking with those folks because I wanted to understand. I figured I must be missing something for seemingly reasonable to wantingly put kids at risk. It turns out, I was not.
They didn't like the law, they felt it would keep kids from coming forward, they chose to ignore it. Plain and simple, they decided they knew what was best, regardless of what their responsibilities were.
By the way, in America, we do not believe it is okay for a Father to sleep with his daughter. That is the American standard I refered to.
Ray says
"I know you want to make this political, but it is not political for me. It is what is best for the well-being of the children in this state".
OK, Let's stipulate that Ray is in this for the kids and it is not a political crusade against a liberal AG
In the report that you cite, the question posed was not about a father sleeping with a daughter, it was about two underage kids having sex
Let'e also stipulate that this is a bad thing and a crime.
Why should school or health officials be the only ones who have to report this heinous act
Surveys have shown that most early teen sex is happening at home in the afternoon before supper when parents are away.
Say a parent gets home early and discovers his 13 year old son in the act of having sex with his 13 year old neighbor.
Should the father go to the phone and call the district attorney, because they have resources to help? Would you?
After all, he has just witnessed a crime that will result at the least in causing mental damage to the 13 year olds.
Or does he call the neighbor parent and possibly work this out and seek some help.
Scools do play a role in welfare of children. I guess it all started with school lunch programs.
This is what society has asked for and not everyone will be happy.
You are the one making this issue political. I hope it does end up in the courts to interpret how this good law should be applied. Yes good law, I believ in the intent of the law. To protect children from abuse and neglect. Your side is just trying to twist the intent to fit your desires.
Ray says
"Actually, once again, you are wrong. The District Attorneys that I have spoken with extensively do not believe there is descretion".
Name them !!
Great, tell them to put their money where their mouth is and get this isue of underage kids having unreported sex into the courts.
Get one on your show to discuss it ( the interpretation from the ag)
with you
Next week Bruce. Stephanie Anderson, the Cumberland County DA is on to talk about this.
Evert Fowle, the Kennebec and Somerset County DA will talk about this.
I have not yet spoken with Geoff Rushlau from Knox, but I know that he had hoped the DAs would be consulted in the drafting of this opinion and they were not.
Why didn't the AG's office send this out to the DA's offices? The DA's are impacted by this opinion.
The mandatory reporters, who by the way, are well spelled out in the law, report to the DA's office.
To answer your rather absurd question that only someone without children would even pose ......
A parent would in fact be in a position to determine if abuse of their child was occuring when walking into two under-age children engaging in sexual activity. They would know if the child was being raped or coersed.
Also, under the law and that is what this is about, the law, parents are not mandatory reporters.
If a child is being raped, a parent would in fact call the authorities. If this were two experimenting youngsters, most parents I know would get hold of the other parents and figure out the proper course of action.
That is the point of a mandatory reporter, to make a report so that a proper course of action can be determined.
Violent sexual activity should be prosecuted.
Non-coersed experimental sexual activity should have the parents brought in and appropriate steps taken from there.
These are not hard issues to understand unless you are looking to enact a political agenda.
The DAs will tell you and my audience this next week.
And you are looking to enact a political agenda. Simple
I will try to watch that show.
You say
"A parent would in fact be in a position to determine if abuse of their child was occuring when walking into two under-age children engaging in sexual activity. They would know if the child was being raped or coersed."
Sure they would !! Especially when their child jumped up upon being caught and said "he or she made me do it' You said it's a crime to have any sex at that age Ray, not me. A crime is a crime and must be reported. You said at the least mental abuse would probably result from this act.
Parents don't have the resources to help determine this and should call the DA right? So the kids can get the help they need
You show how intelligent you are when you make statements like only someone without kids..
I have 6 older brothers and sisters and 23 nieces and nephews and have watched them all grow up.
Being a parent does not make people any wiser or give them special insight.
If that were true then we and the schools would not have the problems that we do.
Let's agree to disagree.
You are either incapable of understanding my point or you simply do not want to. Either way, it is not worth your time or mine to fight with you on this.
Stephanie is on next as I believe Evert is as well. You need to hear their side of this. They are the professionals at this and I trust their judgement.
At the end of the day, I question the motivation of the AG's office and you do not.
So I am going to agree to disagree because I cannot see a time or arguement that would allow either one of us to change our positions.
FRom a state of maine school health manual
Holding a current license in the State of Maine as a Registered Professional Nurse and holding a three year nursing diploma or nursing associate degree from an accredited institution. In addition, the candidate must document 30 semester hours from an accredited institution in the following areas:
1. Organization and administration of school health services
2. Human growth and development, including child and adolescent psychology
3. Educational psychology
4. Mental health, personal adjustment, group dynamics
Ray this is a tiny part of the school nurse qulaifications.
You know, the person who you think is incapable of making a determination of abuse or neglect.
I would accept the school nurse opinion over a state dhhs official any day. You would too if it was not this birth control issue.
You are right I am incapable with agreeing with you on this issue.
When is Stephanie coming on?
Bruce,
Once again, you pick out a "piece" of the issue and make it seem so reasonable, but tell the whole truth.
Yes, it would seem a nurse with that sort of qualifications would be able to make an "informed decision" to the degree that she inspects the child. What about what is happening to the child outside in the community? Part of the DA's investigation includes ascertaining whether the child is being targeted by older actors because they are aware this child engages in sexual activity.
Instead of knee-jerking your response, you should spend some real time investigating what actually occurs when a mandatory report is filed.
Next, the nurse you mentioned would appear to have the qualifications to address the child's health impact.
What about the other positions that qualify as "mandatory reporters?"
Are you aware of the list? If so, surely you do not believe that all of those positions have such qualfications?
Keep in mind, a mandatory reporter is not supposed to have such qualifications. They are simply to report such activity so that those who are qualified can investigate.
The idea here is to protect children who are being harmed from long-term, sustained harm.
Not enact some social liberal agenda that believes that the age of consent ought to be dropped to a significantly lower age as is being advocated by many groups around the nation.
You and your folks will not win this one. You may prevail for a while, but common sense will eventually prevail.
It took 58 years to overturn Plessy v Ferguson. Those standing on the side of right will always eventually prevail, even if they lose a few battles along the way.
"Those standing on the side of right will always eventually prevail, even if they lose a few battles along the way".
I could not agree more
That's why i am a liberal
And Ray, that was your kind of supreme court in 96. They also declared the progressive income tax as unconstitutional.
The side for the right won on that one eventually too.
So Ted says to Stephanie, that her dept has the tools to get to the bottom of a possible abuse and neglect issue with a child.. and Stephanie says, she has the same tools as the school official.
Ray said earlier
"The District Attorney's Office has the resources to fully investigate and determine what is in the best interest of the child. This law was specifically crafted to avoid un-qualified individuals who lack the resources for appropriate investigative efforts to use their descretion in making such a decision"
Sounds to me like their resources "tools" are the same as the schools.
The only sense of agreement with you that I got from her was that the leg should clarify the law 's intent one way or the other.
Go for it. How about another citizen's petition?
You apparently did not listen close enough. Try again tomorrow with Evert Fowle, DA from Somerset and Kennebec County.
Stephanie said several times she did not agree with the opinion. Several times.
I asked her your question, court case or legislature. She perfers legislature. I agree.
The only way you could not have concluded that Stephanie was against this decision is because you did not want to hear it.
She said it several times.
DA Fowle said
"The Attorney general is a man of
GREAT INTEGRITY"
Doesn't sound like he thinks, this is just a political agenda for Rowe.
That must have disappointed you.
Let's get it to the leg. this year.
Give me a break, You drag up the dog catcher once again as not having qualifications to make a determination. I could sense Fowle rolling his eyes at that one.
Gotta hand it to you for taking things to the absurd extremes.
Not once did you admit to Fowle or Anderson that this whole issue came up as a result of the King Middle School contraception program. Before that you were never vocal about this law.
George Will said that technology may decide the future of the abortion issue and convince a woman not to have an abortion after they see the ultrasound pic.
Sounds like he is in favor of the woman being able to make that choice not having the right to choose taken away by the govt.
So the conservative right should stop trying to force their agenda on women and let them decide. To quote your side pertaining to liberals.
We are tired of the right wing conservatives trying to force their agenda down our throat.
I am not tired really, I just think it is a catchy phrase.
Will must be desperate to sell that book. I noticed he tried not to use too many big words while talking to a couple of folks from
Maine.
Saw a campaign sticker that against Obama yesterday. The C in change was turned into a hammer and sickle. I guess we should expect that kind of stuff from the right
I did get the sense that personally Anderson was on the other side of the opinion by Rowe's office. Not surprising since she is a Republican. Her opinion is just that, an opinion I have not seen her put anything in writing about it.
But I stand by my statement that she said her tools were the same as the school officials. Review your tape. You are the one who brought up resouces of the departments.
Fowle
By the way is this the same DA that Annalee Bloom use to work for?
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