Ray questions why the unions are against the Verizon-FairPoint deal.
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About Me
- Ray Richardson
- I live in Westbrook with my wonderful wife Dee Dee and our four children. We have been residents of Maine for a little over 22 years, moving here from Florida in 1985.
32 comments:
First of all, you know who I am. I am not here under an assumed name. I don't know if you are the "average guy" or a union head or member.
Second, I have "ZERO" financial interest in this directly. I do not own Fairpoint stock and never have.
Third, my "in-direct" financial interest is the same as every other Maine citizen. We need a communications company that is willing to make investments in Maine's technology infrastructure in order for our economic situation in the state to improve.
Fourth, why is it spin to say the Unions are fighting this tooth and nail? Do you dispute that statement? If so, you should pay more attention. They are well-organized and are out actively working to kill this deal. I firmly believe they are fighting to keep the status quo because the status quo is good for their power base.
Fifth, this sale is a good deal financially. The money boys on Wall Street support it and it is one of the lowest if not the lowest per line sales in a few decades.
Sixth, Verizon has no interest here. They are unwilling to be partner in our mutual prosperity. They are unwilling to make investments into our infrastructure that will give Maine a competitive advantage or at the very least bring us up to par with the rest of our neighbors, who by the way, we are competing with.
Seventh and lastly, I believe in Fairpoint. Are they perfect? No, they are not. They are, however, a good company with a good track record. They are already here and will not be surprised by the roadblocks placed in their way by Maine's government and the union crowd every time they attempt to push things forward. They are willing to work in this difficult business climate and carve out a plan that will help themselves and Maine people.
By the way, I find your comment about what I do best funny. It is clear what I do best and that is be a good father and husband and eat well.
The unions are doing what they do best. Preserve their power. That is their job. If they were interested in what is good for Maine and what business models make sense, they would have been out their years ago advocating for better infrastructure and more investments by Verizon.
They are NOT looking out for what is good for Maine. They are myopically looking out for what they believe is good for themselves.
As long as the political leaders on both sides continue to bow to their pressure, Maine will never realize its potential.
Nascar88,
Why did you remove your post? It brought about a good discussion.
I am disappointed you chose to remove it.
Ray
Ray, I only removed it to edit add fact to it... I love you guys that spin this as a UNION THING. Its people like you that make things political the way they are. What do you do best, host a radio show? host a web site? The UNION was the first to point out the facts known intuitively, because they know, what they do best. This is the 5th merger of the telephone industry in Maine. I do not recall any UNION uproar for any of the others. Why this one is a very good question. In past shows, I have heard you say, you believe people do what they know best or something very close to that. I have also heard you say recently, if you need to talk someone into something it must be really good. Ray the unions may have pointed first, but the facts, both financially and technically have been clear and verified by many independent bodies and many non-union experts. In recently released confidential testimony to MPUC. The new jobs promised as well as the current active employees will be wiped out at an expected 4% per year 2007-2015. Fairpoint is willing to pay more than than Verizon values the wireline for. Fairpoint expects operating costs to remain VIRTUALLY FLAT YEARS 2008-2015. Whats that mean? Cost of fuel for the trucks or heat for the buildings or electricty for the lights and equipment , materials for the promised DSL build out cannot go up? How unrealistic an assumption for any business. Especially one that supports essential emergency services to our state. It also states Fairpoint will not provide raises to its employees for years 2008-2015. Fairpoint will not provide post retirement benefits, either pension or medical. By Fairpoints own business model they expect share holder value to decline 590 million dollars from 2008 to a negative value of 432 million in 2015. Fairpoint also realizes that the landline connection is on the decline yet they expect to make the same revenue in 2008 as they do in 2015. How can this be perhaps a few rate increases. A study released this past summer found 40% of the income earned in this state is generated around the Portland area, not the Alagash. Are you saying the report from the Hearing Examiner to the Maine PUC is based soley on UNION FACTS??? ,or perhaps the RECOMMENDATION from the Public Advocates of 3 states... Whats your angle, you really dont say... is it the southern connection??? The UNION or the SINCERITY of Gene Johnson have nothing to do with it. Many good people have had dreams that did not make it. A company needs the where-with-all to do it. Communication networks are money pits to upgrade and repair. Let the facts both financially and technically speak for themselves, not the dream...
I hope you will listen to what Gene Johnson has to say about this deal on Tuesday.
Johnson has the facts. He put this deal together. Rather than some newspaper or talkshow guy's perspective, let's hear from the man who actually has his behind on the line.
We should not blindly accept any deal just because what we have is not good and not working for our future, however, perserving the status quo will leave a new generation of Maine people in non-competitive circumstances and continue to drive our young adults from Maine.
I am unwilling to accept this fate and will do whatever I can to change the current course.
This is not political for me.
Yes, I am a Republican because my voter registration card says I am. If you have ever listend to my show, you would know that I do not fit in with the current Republican party. We do not share the same ideas and I do not believe in the path they have taken.
Everything has a political undertone. The examiner's report had more than a tinge of it.
I am in hopes that some of the recommendations from it will be adopted and allow the sale to go through. Time will tell.
I encourage you to listen to Gene Tuesday. He is the one who has it all on the line.
Ray, Gene has alot on the line... like retiring next year from a 400 million dollar company or an aquired 3 billion dollar company on a steep decline. Either way Gene has stated he will retire next year. The difference in pay out between the two, I can imagine is huge. Both the Public Advocate and the MPUC staff are charged by law, to do whats best for the consumer. Gene and the Unions would do whats best for them. I will listen very closely Tuesday morning. The Communications Act of 1996 forces the Regional Bell Operating Companies to wholsale out thier networks to competitors. They are a provider of the same services. In California it took IP packet legislation to be passed before Verizon would invest billions in new technology. This legislation basically protected Verizons investment and allowed them to keep it for themselves. Could this perhaps be the reason why Verizon wants out here? Has anybody really asked them? I have read they want out due to market conditions ... This is a big one...
Let me introduce myself:
My name is Todd Bedard, I work for Verizon in NH. As an employee of Verizon I am also a union member.
Now that we have that out of the way I would like to talk about a few points that you've written.
Although I do not live in Maine, I will be affected by this just as every other Maine citizen will. My stake in this is not only job related. As part of my job with Verizon I install all the equipment that makes DSL work. Because of that I'm pretty darn educated on what the capabilities and limitations of most of the equipment available.
Also, I have been following this deal fairly closely, and I would like to say that I am aware of the capabilities and limitations of this sale.
I disagree with you that the unions are trying to kill this deal to keep the status quo, I honestly believe that the union is filled with people by myself; we are honest and hard working. We also know the network. Much of the information that you may have read about the network being in horrible condition came from the employees (ie the union). Verizon certainly wasn't going to say anything about it, and Fairpoint with their brief Central office visits wouldn't have seen anything wrong.
Second, I can't disagree with you more that this deal "is good financially" and "the money boys support it". Fairpoint stock has fallen over $5 in the past 3 months. Show me where the Wall street support is please.
I really don't want to put too many points on this post, because from what I've read you don't answer questions specifically. It appears that you just use other peoples posts to springboard into anti-union talk.
I'm asking you to specifically answer a couple of questions.
Please quote or point out, or provide some type of verifiable information that supports Wall street supporting this deal.
Second: You seem to blame everything on the union. Could you provide your opinion as to why the OCA's in all three states, The Vermont PUC, as well as leading politicians are strongly against this?
First, thank you for stating your name and your affiliation. For folks to act as though their interest do not cloud their judgement is ridiculous.
I will also say that I agree with you about the average union worker. I know they are hard-working and care about the future of our state and this country. They are part of the backbone of makes America work each and every day.
I disagree with the union hierarchy that uses its influence to undermine the things I care about.
Lets go with your first point.
Fairpoint is going to make infrastructure investments that Verizon has refused to make. They are going to expand the capacity of the infrastructure and overtime, bring to regions of our state that currently do not have access to broadband. I have spoken with many Fairpoint people who will help orchestrate this investment. They are currently here in Maine and they are fully aware of the current limitations. They believe Fairpoint will make the necessary investments to build a proper infrastructure for providing additional broadband access to thousands of Mainers who currently lack it.
Some of the folks I have consulted with at Fairpoint, I have known for several years. They, like you, have been in the telecommunications industry for years, either at Fairpoint or other companies. I trust them and accept their explanation as to how and why they will be able to improve their infrastructure once the sale goes through.
Verizon will NOT make the necessary investments unless forced to (see settlement agreement). I believe Fairpoint wants to make those investments and will.
It is a matter of who you trust. I do not trust Verizon.
On your second point .... stock goes up and stock goes down. Market flucuations occur all the time. Although I have not followed the stock price through the holidays, it does not surprise me that it may have gone down. Fairpoint has a lot riding on this deal. If the deal goes down, that is a big negative for Fairpoint. The money boys do not like "negative" and that would certainly affect the stock price.
This is kind of like the drug company whose stock climbs based on the belief that an FDA approval in near. Then, if there is a delay or bad news the stock starts to drop.
The money boys in this case are the ones making the loans to Fairpoint to make this happen. Money boys do not usually loan money that does not have a pretty good chance of it being returned in their opinion at the time of the loan.
I hope you would agree that if money is put out to make a deal happen, those putting it out believe it will come back or they would not do it.
They, along with Fairpoint, have it all on the line.
Question for you.
This is a deal between two private entities. (Yes, I know they are publicly traded).
Is it right for employees of the company to have such a say in a deal between to private companies? Shouldn't this deal be decided by the shareholders and because it is regulated, the PUC?
Why do the employees get a say, they simply work there and will get another job if things go south.
It is the stock holders who get left holding the bag if this fails.
At the end of the day, it is about who you trust.
I have spent considerable time talking with Fairpoint folks, some I have known for a long time. I believe what they are telling me.
I have talked with several people I trust in the financial industry. They say this deal works, especially after the cut in price. I believe what they are telling me.
I have done a lot of research on this deal. I know that it is not perfect, but I believe it will be better than our current situation.
Many have downplayed the type of broadband access Fairpoint will bring in this deal.
I see that sorta like the person who deningrates certain types of work.
A job may be beneath them, but to the person who doesn't have a job, that job is a Godsend.
For those who do not have broadband access and have no hope of getting through Verizon, this is a Godsend.
I believe the claims Fairpoint is making. You all do not.
It is just that simple.
Simple and of course, whatever the PUC determines.
By the way, your comment about politicians being against this deal is amusing to me.
These are the same clowns that have given Vermont and Maine the 1st and 2nd highest tax burden in the country.
These are the same folks who have made Maine's health insurance rates through their ridiculous policies the second highest in the country.
The very fact that they are against this deal is simply another reason for me to be for it.
They are wrong on 95% of the issues they address. Why would I trust their judgement on this one?
I am sure that a good deal of their opposition is to simply avoid upsetting the unions that they depend on at election time.
Sound cycnical? Probably, but I believe every word of it.
Again, I'm going to try to keep this short. You and I are not going to agree on some basic principles, and I accept that, but I think a few things are up for discussion.
When you say, "I disagree with the union hierarchy that uses its influence to undermine the things I care about. Your choice of words makes it personal. Your choice of the word "I" makes it seem that the unions are personally out to get you. Or that they oppose the deal just to be a thorn in your side.
Does the union have an agenda? Of course! Name an organization that doesn't. It's defined in the actual word... people organize because they have a common goal. I don't understand why people who work for a large company that organize to try to get what's best for them is a bad thing. I, as a worker want to make decent wages, not pay crazy money for my health care, and be able to build a future. When a company like Verizon is my employer, and they post profits in the multiple billions, why is it bad for me to try to provide for my family? Why is it not crazy for me to stay in the middle class when my CEO is one of the highest paid CEO's in the world? Money is not being lost, people are not, not getting broadband because we, as union members have benefits and make a decent wage. Verizon, as a company has chosen not to spend that money, not because of the union, but for their own reasons.
-stepping off my soapbox-
To answer your question about me as an employee having a say. As an employee of Verizon I hold a large amount of stock in Verizon. If I were to become an employee of Fairpoint I would hold a large amount of their stock. That stock is my retirement. So I would be the one left holding the bag. So to expect me to sit back and just accept what happens is irresponsible on my part.
Lastly, a question for you. I still feel a little hazy on your "money boys" defense. When a stock drops over 25%, that is not just an ebb or flow, thats a statement. Do you have a more specific "money boy" reference that speaks positively towards the sale?
thanks
Todd,
I do not believe the unions are out "to get me." There are some union members who have behaved in a boorish manner toward my family.
I do not cast all union members by the actions of a few.
Using their influence to affect things I care about was with regard to politics.
I do not believe a man or woman should have to belong to a union to be able to go to work. I certainly do not believe they should have to pay homage to a union to work for their government, as they do now.
I care about those issues.
I also care about it when a union will defend an employee who has clearly done something wrong. There was a case at a Maine business where an employee would clock in and then leave and go sleep in their vehicle and then come back and clock out. The employee was caught on security cameras numerous times doing this and they were dismissed.
The union fought it and the business eventually caved and gave the job back. They said it was cheaper than the lawsuit.
Personally, I feel that unions once had a wonderful and historic value in our country. Now I see them as corrupt, more concerned about their own power than they are about the right thing.
I have watched, with my own eyes, the unions line the halls of the state capitol and attempt to intimidate our elected officials. It disgusts me.
So, no I do not believe your union is out to get me. In fact, I think your union probably does not even know who I am. A few of your members have behaved badly.
With that said, now to your question.
Is Fairpoint still getting the money to do this deal? The answer as of today is yes. Therefore, the money boys putting up the money still believe in the deal.
I thought that answer would be obvious.
With all the financial turmoil going on in the world right now, do you really believe they would still extend the money if they thought it was a bad deal?
Come on guys .... you are not using logic here.
The people extending the money to Fairpoint believe this deal works OR THEY WOULD NOT DO IT.
Common sense.
There are your money boys ... aside from any of the financial guys I have spoken with, the actual "money boys" still believe in the deal and it is their money at risk.
I was not clear if you are a direct stock holder in this deal or if your pension that your participate in was the stock holder.
If you are personally a stock holder, of course you should have a say.
The collective employees should not. They have a job. While that may sound cold, it is the way capitalism works.
If the company, any company folds, employees walk away without liability and get a new job. The owners (stock holders, private owners.... whatever) are left holding the financial bag.
The only reason the union should have any say in this deal is if Fairpoint or Verizon were seeking union concessions to make this work.
Gene Johnson says ... "wage and benefit parity."
There are not wage or benefit concessions .... ergo, I do not believe you should have a say.
Only the politicians who count on your organization for re-election would believe you should.
I think your definition of "common sense" and mine are a little different.
You point out common sense as pertaining to "money boys" supporting the deal and offering money. Yet, the common sense I see is the fact that Fairpoint has dropped over $7 in three months.
Those money boys are pulling there money OUT of the stock showing, what I see as a lack of support.
You still haven't answered my question about specific money boys. Who, using names or specific corporations, have supported Fairpoint in the last 6 months?
Secondly, I don't disagree with you that some union members are power hungry. But you seem to cast all union members in that light when you say that unions have passed their usefulness. Where you've seen a bad union member saved when they were sleeping in their car, I've seen great union members hassled and fired by supervisors that have no idea what they are doing, or have a vendetta against that employee for some previous wrong doing.
In those cases, the unions saved those employees and made sure the right thing was done.
We are NEVER, EVER going to agree on the union thing.
I think they are basically bad in relation to how business operates and you think they are good.
Philosophically, we will simply never agree on that one.
What you may not know is that I respect the right of workers to collectively organize. I do not think unions should be abolished by outlawing them. I hope they go away because the workers see the wisdom of not paying their hard-earned money to such an organization, but I do not believe there should be legislation to outlaw their existence.
If people want to organize in a collective manner and allow their future to be determined by what the organization says, that is their business.
Agree to disagree on unions bad / unions good????
While this is not a case of jounrnalistic integrity ( I am NOT a jourmalist) and therefore need to protect my sources, I did speak with several respected folks at the Wall Street Journal and through other contacts with folks in the financial industry as I did my homework on this deal. While their comments were not privileged, they were private, not on the air. They were not done to be put on the air, but to help me understand this deal and whether it made sense.
I am not sure if they have commented publicly on this deal and I am therefore uncomfortable with saying who they are.
One of them, I assure you, you would recognize if you follow the financial industry.
Bottom line to all of this is the following question.
Do you know Kurt Adams? Do you know anything about him?
I have known Kurt for a number of years. He is bright, creative, open-minded and a person of integrity.
He is also committed to Maine and its future.
He will not support a deal that does not work. He wil not support a deal that does not make common sense.
I am personally confident that Kurt Adams will act in a manner consistent with what is best for Maine's future.
Although you and I and the other who have posted here disagree, we should all take comfort that Kurt will do the right thing.
If this deal is killed, permanently .... I will accept it because I know that Kurt will have done his homework and decided this did not work and was not in Maine's best interest.
The reverse works as well. If he supports the deal, then I am also confident because of the above.
Personally, I think the Verizon folks have allowed their direct personal interest to cloud their thinking. As a regulated utility, this deal will not happen without extensive and intensive scrutiny by an impartial board.
I think both sides should be satisfied with the outcome, regardless of it end.
The permanent decision by the PUC will be the right one, regardless of what you or I think.
I can live with that even if I disagree with the outcome.
the above should have said, "no need to protect my sources"
This comment was with regard to the fact that I am not a journalist, but am compelled to respect a private conversation.
I do not and will not break confidences, whether tied to my job or my personal life.
Well, I guess our conversation is over. I don't want to have what you've had on other parts of this site where it turns into a pissing contest.
You are certainly right that we will always disagree on the union thing. And I must say I'm disapointed, but not surprised that you wont provide names. I think it is sad that you're hiding behind psuedo-journalistic integrity in an attempt to not provide any type of factual information.
I wish you well.
This is why I don't care for you union types.
You don't read and you don't listen.
There was nothing here about journalistic integrity. I had private conversations with people in the financial industry as a part of my research. They did not give me permission to reveal the conversation. SO what?
I asked people who are smarter than me about an issue that is big and complicated.
What did you do, call your union supervisor and ask him for the union line on Fairpoint?
What difference does it make who they are? Do you doubt that I have the ability through my FOX connections to talk with financial experts from around the country? Do you know that News Corp. (FOX nationally) owns the Wall Street Journal?
Are you a financial genius who was able to walk through every detail of this transaction and determine whether it made sense? If so, you are in the wrong line of work.
I know your UNION has gotten you good wages and benefits, but if you are truly a financial guru, you could be making several hundred thousand a year, not 65 thousand.
I suspect, if you actually did more than ask for the union line on this deal, you talked with people far smarter than you about the financial implications.
That is what I did. I did not put them on the air. I called and asked what they thought of this deal, did it make sense?
Each one explained what they thought the stregnths and the weaknesses of the deal where. At the end of the conversation, I asked a simple question.
If it were your money, would you do this deal?
The answer was always yes. Sometimes a qualified yes based on certain concessions, but each thought it was a reasonable deal.
You are a smart guy. I am sure if you thought about it, you could figure out who at least one of these guys is.
did you ever consider that this deal might work?
Have you considered what you will do if it is approved?
Why did n't you address the Kurt Adams questions?
I know that answer and so do you.
It is the greatest fear you and your union brothers have.
There are a lot of you and just one of me. You can fill this forum with your postings, but at the end of the day .... it is the same ole stuff.
You are worried about your very narrow interests and are not willing to consider any other option.
Why don't you all just cut the crap and realize that there is more than one side of this issue.
AND .... this is the most important part.
The PUC will not approve it if it is not in the best interest of Maine.
Instead of hanging your hat on their integrity, you all want to continue your typical "scorched earth" policies just like every other damn union in this country when they get involved in politics.
Your biggest ally in this deal is the integrity of the three people who will vote on this at Maine's PUC.
Instead of trying to "discredit and 'uncover'" my ultra secret, double handshake, whisper in my ear in a dark alley financial advisor, why not talk about the PUC?
It is their decision and you and I will have to live with it.
I am comfortable with that .... ARE YOU?
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you.
You have the audacity to ask me why I didn't answer a question about Kurt Adams when you have not ONCE answered a question that was asked by myself or others in a straight forward answer.
You are not the only person with access to nationally known experts, don't be so full of yourself.
I don't tow a union party line. I express my opinion the way I see it.
I make much more than 65K a year. Don't pretend that you know me.
I'll tell you what, if you can get off the accusatory "that's why I don't like you union types" thought process and answer the questions I've asked then I'll do the quid pro quo thing and answer yours.
I don't care what you say, I find it peculiar, at best, that you won't provide a name. Contrary to your snide accusations I am pretty informed in concerns to this deal. I have no reason to hide behind a name or supposed fact. If you ask me questions I can provide you with traceable sources.
If you can possibly reply to this post without invoking the word "union" maybe we can have a decent conversation and I'll answer your questions.
You know what? Don't even reply. I can see that this is already turning into something that resembles another thread.
I never thought I was going to change your mind, but I had hoped to try to have you explain your thought process to me, but it appears to me that you are only interested in generalizing and placing blame.
I do not want to be a part of that.
I am not sure what question I have not answered.
I am sure that you do not like my answer and that is why you pursue the attitude you have taken.
The only answer you need is this:
They boys providing the money, have they pulled from this deal?
If the answer is yes, then the money boys have pulled out.
If the answer is no, then the money boys .... the ones with something actually on the line .... support this deal.
Lets just keep it to them. Lets use those money boys as the money boys I am referring to.
Are they still willing to finance this deal ...Yes or No?
IF they are, then obviously the "money boys" think this deal works or they would not provide the money.
Aside from any of my personal research into this deal, the statements above are simply common sense ... something you apparently do not want to apply to this deal.
Just like the PUC .... if they approve this deal, then obviously they believe the deal works.
By the way, I was not suggesting that you didn't have "Access" to anything.
You and your other compatriots who have posted on this board acted as though I somehow did not have access to anyone in the financial industry. I figured it was obvious through my job that I had this access, but it appeared that you and those who posted here needed me to state that.
I am curious. Are you in the habit of revealing the contents of private conversations?
I am not, which is why I am able to learn as much as I do about the issues that matter.
Just because I disagree with your position, it does not make me ignorant on this issue. Quite the contrary.
I have spent a lot of time researching this issue, discussing it with a lot of different people and then I took this information and applied common sense to what I believe is best for Maine, not my own selfish, personal interest.
I don't have a personal horse in this race. I have looked at it with an objective eye.
I realize there are some risks here, but I also believe that Fairpoint has a good plan.
The truth is, I trust Gene Johnson and I trust the employees that I know at Fairpoint who will make this work, should it be approved.
I went to the message board (fairpoint-verizon or whatever it is called).
There are nasty, personal attacks against Gene Johnson and anything to do with Fairpoint.
There is no objectivity from the crowd involved in that board.
Face it, you all do not trust Fairpoint ... I get that
Here is the big question:
Why not take your pension fund and do the buyout yourselves?
If you all have all the answers, you could actually put this deal together.
I have also looked at how some of those numbers would work. You might in fact be able to do it.
One thing though, you would actually have it all on the line, a real stake where you may win, but you also may lose.
Are you all willing to put it all on the line for this company you love so much?
I bet I know that answer as well.
You all want to dictate this deal but not get your hands dirty while doing it. It does not work that way in a capitalist society.
You saving grace is the integrity of the Public Utilities Commission.
You have an objective set of eyes reviewing this deal, removed from the passion and nastiness.
It is too bad, however, that they won't consider your Verizon-Fairpoint board in their decision. They would see the real interest on the part of your team is self-preservation, not what is best for Maine's future.
ray I shouldn't have to tell you what questions you didn't answer, it's common sense to me. And if I do, then it just proves how little YOU read posts.
I will not respond to you poke-me-in-chest taunts. I know where I stand, I know I have real statistical, factual information to back me up. You have supposed "private" conversations with the Money boys (who, by the way sound like a teenie bopper boy band) I can't and won't understand how a conversation with a financial adviser about this deal falls under the too-private-to-share-with-others catagory.
Again, present a post with some type of basis in reality and I'll talk. Otherwise, I will choose not to talk to you because you talk in circles and I choose not to go down that road.
Look, you keep trying to make something into a big deal.
I had several conversations with several John Does. These were not interviews, they were me asking a few questions, kicking some tires, trying to gain a better understanding of the Verizon-Fairpoint deal.
They were not "official" conversations that were meant for public consumption. I suppose I could invite these guys on the air and ask them to give their opinion, but I am not in the habit of giving detailed information about off-the-cuff conversations.
I don't do it when I talk with my friends or when I talk with the Governor about an idea.
Why is the "who" so important to you and your friends who post here?
Are you planning to harass any name I list with your organization?
I can just imagine me telling you the name of one of these guys and you getting your entire union to harass the hell out of them.
Now, let's look at one of your questions directly.
---------------------
Second, I can't disagree with you more that this deal "is good financially" and "the money boys support it". Fairpoint stock has fallen over $5 in the past 3 months. Show me where the Wall street support is please.
----------------------
I specifically addressed this question earlier in multiple posts. Either A)you are incapable of understanding my answer, or B) you did not like my answer because it made common sense and that does not work in your favor so you have decided to act as though I did not answer it.
Let me try again, but you must follow along. This is a specific answer ... you with me?
Stock ebbs and flows when a big transaction is rumored to be afloat. In this case, it is not a rumor because this transaction is regulated by the various PUCs.
This is a big deal for Fairpoint, their largest ever. The news surrounding its completion over the last few weeks has been negative. Vermont and NH's PUCs have come out against it (you are aware of this, right .... and that this would be a negative for someone who thought they were buying stock in a company that was about to become the eight largest in its industry in the country).
When you purchase stock, you do so because you believe it is a good investment. People buying Fairpoint have believed their acquistion of Verizon would happen. Instead, in Vermont and New Hampshire, their PUCs said no. In Maine, the examiner's report was against the deal.
In the real world (non-union) negative news about a company does not help a stock to go up, it forces it to go down.
If this deal is approved, you will see the stock climb again.
Next, this happens all the time in the real world. Drug companies tout the benefits of a new drug. Anticipation of its approval drives the price of a stock up ... then the FDA does not approve it and the stock drops.
I realize in a world where people who do a poor job are still rewarded with raises because of union power, you may not be familar with some of this, but bad performances outside of union contracts usually warrant a drop in value to a company or a stock holder.
If a drug does not get approved, the stock drops because the company invested time, effort and money into a product that produced negative results.
If Fairpoint fails in its pruchase of Verizon (and the public news has been negative lately) then the value of their stock would be worth less because their effort would have failed.
Don't you guys read anything other than "Union Today?"
Lastly, those providing the money to Fairpoint to make this deal happen have not pulled their support. CLEARLY, to anyone who is not protecting their own selfish interests, that would be a signal that these money boys still believe the deal works ... OR THEY WOULD NOT PROVIDE THE MONEY.
That is a very specific answer.
I know you do not like it because it does not foster your case that the stock is dropping because Fairpoint is a bad company.
Fairpoint is a very good company. They will be very good for Maine. They will expand broadband and help our state move into the 21st Century.
I know that when people are empowered with information that changes the status quo, which is not a good thing for political hacks, bureaucrats and unions, but I am glad they want to help our state move forward.
It beats the hell out of having Verizon here, a company that has over-billed its clients and refused to honor the responsibility it has as a government regulated and protected utility.
So, now that I have specifically answered your question about the money .... what do you say?
Not much, I am sure as my answer does not support your contention that this is a bad deal.
This is a very good deal and the drop in sales price makes it even better.
The PUC will decide this, not me. Why are you so interested in what I think? You never answered that question and I am sure you will not .... but I know that answer.
"Why is the "who" so important to you and your friends who post here?"
It is a big deal to me because it's what you are basing you're entire opinion on. That, and going the opposite way that the union goes.
I don't plan to harass anyone...
you know what.. really, I'm done with you. You come across to me as that fat bully in junior high school that thought he could intimidate me just because he was bigger.
I wasn't intimidated then, and I'm sure not intimidated now.
Shoot your fake facts and your half name dropping off to someone else. your audience with me is ended.
First of all my friend, I was not fat in Junior High. Secondly, I do not bully anyone.
Like you, however, I am not intimidated easily and certainly not by a bunch of boorish behaving union guys.
Here is my problem with you. You don't read.
I never said I based my whole opinion on what a few financial guys told me.
Frankly, after talking with them about the basics and whether they might work, I talked with the folks at Fairpoint to find out in detail why they wanted to do this deal and what they hoped to accomplish should it go through.
I found them very credible.
Of course, if you listened to my show and not "this is union radio" you would know why I believe what I believe. I have clearly put it out there for months.
Several of you union boys have said I paint all union members with the same brush.
Truth is, based on how you all act whenever someone isn't telling you how wonderful you are, I think you all have one mind that is shared by the members.
I have recieved hundreds of emails from people who say they are Verizon employees. Several of you have posted here.
All of you say exactly the same thing.
What am I supposed to think? That you are all independent thinkers who came to exactly the same conclusions?
Fred Staples told my audience how you all treat a member who thinks for himself. That interview is well-documented. He clearly laid out his case that because, as a union member he supported the sale of Verizon to Fairpoint he was threatened and had a noose placed in his work area.
That sounds like very "tolerant" thinking by your independent minded members.
I have stated clearly over time, repeatedly, that I support this deal because I believe Fairpoint. I believe what they have told me. I believe Gene Johnson and I trust him.
It is that simple.
Who am I supposed to believe, a bunch of union thugs who confronted my children at the mall during Christmas and told them how bad their Daddy was for making them lose their jobs?
Oh how I wish I had such power.
Verizon in Northern New England is a terrible company. They have violated the trust and responsibility they were given as a regulated and protected utility.
Fairpoint wants to be here. Fairpoint wants to make investments here.
I believe they will do it.
I only hope the Maine PUC sees it the same way I do and we can eradicate Verizon from our midst and get Maine wired up and moving forward.
Since you said you were done with this, I assume you will not respond ... but I will leave you with this.
I do not wish for you to lose your job or your retirement. If you are who you say you are, you have worked hard for it.
I do wish for Verizon to get out of the way and I do hope your union is weakened by all of this.
Fortunately for you and your brothers, Gene Johnson has said there will be wage and benefit parity .... I trust him and I believe it will be so .... that and he will add almost 300 of your brothers to the membership ... probably making your union stronger.
I guess that is a consequence of this transaction I will have to live with.
-WHY,WHY do I continue to respond!!??!?!-
Ray,
You "accuse" me of not reading, and repeating the same thing over and over. Yet, you will reply to a question like, "name your sources" with a anti-union rant hinting that I'm going to hassle anyone that I disagree with. You are completely and entirely wrong on that.
I respect someone that will stand by a decision AND provide some type of information to back that opinion up.
What you're doing is just the opposite. Your sounding off and dropping names and relations but not providing any information.
(and on a side note, I'd like to reply to your "I don't reveal private conversations" crap. You spoke on air several weeks ago about a conversation that you had with "your friend" at the PUC. You said after speaking with him, you had every confidence that he would make the right decision for Maine. So don't pull your fake concern for private conversations. You're a fraud and a fake and couldn't debate yourself out of a wet paper bag.)
Now, back to what I was saying.
You accuse union members of repeating the same old thing, yet have you listened to yourself or the other hacks from Fairpoint? You all repeat the same useless facts over and over..."600 jobs, Broadband, IPTV, blah blah blah..
I'll break each one of those down for you, and I'll type slowly so that you can understand.
675 jobs? That's going to make our union stronger, huh?
Again, you show your complete lack of knowledge in concerns to anything.
Out of the 675, about 200 are going to be sales positions. (sales positions are not union represented, they are considered management) Another 250 are going to be engineering and upper management. If you know how to count you'll see that leaves about 225 union positions throughout the three states. AND using Fairpoint's own numbers they expect everyone of the 225 plus another 400 jobs to disappear over the next 4 years... That just sounds Great for the economy, doesn't it!?
Next lets talk about "Broadband".
There are two definitions of Broadband... High speed broadband, which is generally accepted to be anything over 3Mbps. Then there is Fairpoint's definition of Broadband. They want it to be acceptable to go as low as 256kbps. Which is barely a whisper above dial up. Your trustworthy pal Gene Johnson was quoted a couple of years ago as saying the following, "I don't want to use the word 'DSL', people don't like 'DSL'. We need to use the word Broadband. It sounds much faster"
That's a direct quote.
And to give you a little primer on DSL I'll tell you this: not all broadband is created equal. 256kbps is NOT going to bring the rural areas in Maine to the future. It will merely be more of a convenience for most people to check their email. And second to that, it's going to cost them more money because not only are they going to have to have a phone line, but now they have to buy an Internet connection.
Lastly, You will NEVER see IPTV on a single network in either of the three states outside of the very southern tip of NH. The Network simply can't support it. It would be like trying to shove an Elephant through a garden hose.
I'm not even going to respond to your Fred Staples comment. I barely know the man, but I will say that their are many independent thinkers the work at Verizon. Thinking is not discouraged in Unions weather or not you believe that or not.
You know I truly tried to have a decent conversation with you. I have seen how other threads have gone and I didn't want to go down that road, but you continue to throw your little digs in at every chance you get. You continue to repeat the same non-information. And you prove over and over how little you know about this transaction. If you want to tone down your accusations and start using something relating to substantive, factual information I'll talk, but I assume you'll just continue on your anti-union-they-are-mean-to-my-kids crusade.
Oh by the way... Fairpoint is down another 50 cents.. I guess that must be normal, right?
The reason I respond the way I do to you and your buddies is you just make things up, half-truths and run with them. I have watched it in campaigns with my own eyes and your are doing it here now.
The PUC conversation you refered to was "On-the-air." Of course, being dishonest about this to make a point, you would not mention that in your post.
Kurt Adams, the chairman of the PUC was on the air and that was the conversation I referenced. He was on the air so that all could hear. It was not a private conversation.
You simply lied in your above post to attempt to discredit me because you know that I am right about what I have been saying.
It was a "public" conversation on radio and television, not a private conversation between two friends. Of course, that doesn't suit your effort, so you just made it up to post it here. Typical tactic.
I guess you are simply to in-grained in your thinking to understand the following.
I believe the claims Fairpoint is making.
I do not believe the claims your union is making.
It is just that simple. I believe Fairpoint.
I know you can't stand that. I know you cannot grasp that anyone could possibly not believe you or your organization, but I do not believe you or your organization.
Apparently, neither does the Maine PUC as they did not allow your hearing the other day.
I realize what I am about to tell you, you will not understand .... but I will try anyway.
Fairpoint has made assertions in attempting to acquire Verizon. After looking into them, I believe Fairpoint. I do not believe the claims the IBEW has made.
It ain't complicated my friend.
I don't trust anything that comes from a union.
I do, however, trust what I am told by Gene Johnson and other at Fairpoint.
As I said to your friend Publius, it is all about who you trust.
I trust Fairpoint.
I do not trust Verizon.
I do not trust the IBEW.
---------
You, on the other hand, trust the IBEW.
You trust Verizon.
Somehow, your trust in those organizations is sound and noble.
Mine trust in Fairpoint is mis-placed, according to you.
Everything in life comes down to who or what you believe.
In the Bible, there is a historical account of the birth of Jesus. It gives the details under which his birth occured and why.
I believe the Bible as a source, I accept it.
Others do not.
It is all what and who you believe.
------
I am curious.
Which bothers you more?
That I believe in Fairpoint and the plan they have laid out for Northern New England, OR
That I do not trust the IBEW, an organization that you have dedicated your professional life to?
--------------------
Whether you believe it or not does not matter, but the truth is .... I do not want any professional harm for you, your union brothers or the people of Northern New England.
If I believed the Fairpoint deal was a bad one and that the IBEW was right, I would support the IBEW's position.
By the way, I can back that statement up with a fact. I stood with the Police "UNION" in a contract dispute that lasted three years and was very public in my support of their efforts .... BECAUSE I BELIEVED THEY WERE RIGHT!
I believe you are wrong.
I am on vacation and other than checking my email and getting the alerts that you and your friends have posted on my blog, I have not followed the stock market since before Christmas.
So what, their stock dropped.
What will you say if this deal goes through and their stock climbs?
Oh I know, millions of stock holders will have been duped by the PUC and Fairpoint.
Why haven't you addressed the "PUC integrity" thing?
Is that because if they support this deal, you do not want to be on record as saying they were a body known for its integrity?
If the Maine PUC denies this deal permanently, I accept it.
I believe whatever FINAL decision they make, it will be what is right for Maine.
By the way, all of the claims you are making about the infrastructure .... Fairpoint is attempting to acquire that infrastructure and improve it.
If the deal fails, Verizon will still own an infrastructure that cannot do the things you say (according to you).
Who is going to improve the infrastructure if Verizon keeps the lines?
One other thing ... why not address the union buying out Verizon. Your pension fund has loads of money.
Okay, from what I can see you don't trust the Union, and I think that you trust Fairpoint, right?
Now that we have that out of the way I will defend myself from your assertions (again)
In reference to the Kurt Adams quote, I heard you on the radio say that day something in the effect of, "I spoke with Kurt adams, and I trust that he will make the right decision." You did not say at that time that he was a guest on an earlier show. I was not aware of that, so I will accept some of the blame, but I will not accept you saying that I purposely mislead anyone.
I also continue to take offense to your assertions that I can't understand your position, I do. I just don't understand how you came to that position. I hear you say that you trust them, but I really don't understand what you've heard or read to be able to trust them. I have read many different accounts of how Fairpoint operates. And not only in concerns to their employees, but their products and customer service.
Those things that I've read are indisputable facts. But again, you continue to come across as you just "feel right about it".
I guess it comes down to this: I have the ability to understand your position, you just don't seem to have the ability to explain your position in understandable terms (NOT "I believe them")
For you to reduce Facts to "the claims that my union is making" is just wrong. There are certain facts that the union supports. Some of those facts are again indisputable. Many of the union positions are backed by FAIRPOINT's numbers. I'm not going to bother to point them out right now unless you want to specifically discuss those issues.
"so what the stock dropped?"
I say it's very significant because your pal Gene Johnson relied heavily on the quote, "Wall street is showing their support of this deal" (you would call them money boys) He said this often when the stock hovered around $20, now that it has dropped below $13 you don't hear him or any other mention it.
In response to your statement that Fairpoint is buying Verizon so that they can improve the lines. That is so far from the truth its beyond laughable.
Again, using Fairpoints own written plan, Fairpoint only plans on installing equipment in Central offices around New England. In order to actually fix the network they would have to run 100's of thousands of miles of Copper to replace the faulty copper that hangs mostly in rural areas of all three states. THIS IS A FACT.
And lastly, I want to address your suggestion that the union buy out Verizon. Rather than me do the numbers for you, I would suggest that you actually do some homework and see just how much the union has in their bank account.
I think you have been watching too many Oliver stone movies or something. The local unions do not have remotely the kind of money you think they do. The National union as a whole certainly has some money, but again, I'm sure it's not near what you think it is.
Okay, now we are finally getting somewhere.
I think we both had apparently not communicated our positions well, at least clearly, I have not mine.
I misunderstood what you were getting at. You understand my conclusion, you simply don't understand the path I took to get there.
Okay, that makes sense, at least to me.
I don't have time to chronicle the whole journey, but here are the highlights.
I have long been frustrated with why we in Maine are not wired up with technology, whether internet or cell phone.
I have asked the Governor, both publicly and privately, to bring all the players together in a room at the Capitol and not let anyone leave until we have a solution about fixing this problem.
From the state side, what incentives are needed? From the business side, what would cause the investment to occur?
Get these answers, craft a solution and have the entire project completed within five years.
When I first became aware of the Fairpoint-Verizon deal, I was "out-of-the-gate" supportive of it because it meant change, change away from Verizon and their unwillingness to make needed investments into our state.
As I began to look into the details, I became more acutely aware of "mess" this situation is for Maine's future.
Our infrastructure is in poor condition and its capacity for expansion is low.
Along came Fairpoint with plans to invest and expand broadband in Maine, for me a critical element in a future, prosperous state.
I looked into Fairpoint and found it to be an interesting company, roughly twenty years old, based in Charlotte (a plus for me as a Southern boy).
I also realized that this was a monumental step for them, far larger than any of their previous 32 deals. Frankly, I was concerned about their ability to pull it off and it worried me because I did not want Maine to continue to stuck with Verizon, a company that clearly was not interested in Maine's future.
The amount of debt they were taking on was a specific concern because that could hamper their ability to make future investments in our state.
I talked with various folks at Fairpoint and felt I had a pretty good understanding of what their plans were, should this deal go through. I then called a couple of guys I know on Wall Street and asked them what they thought.
They said (this is paraphrasing) that this deal had some risks and that they felt it worked a lot better at a lower price. I asked how much lower and they replied around 750 mil.
I asked them if the debt would preclude Fairpoint from making investments into broadband. They said (again, paraphrasing) that I needed to remember just how much revenue Fairpoint would be gaining from this deal with their new customer base.
They said they thought the deal made sense because Fairpoint would be aggressive whereas Verizon was passive in their approach to attracting new customers and retaining old ones with new services. They again reiterated that while the deal made sense at the current price, if they were the advisors on this deal, they would fight for a price drop and pointed out that with the tax break Verizon was getting, they could afford the price drop just to dump the region.
I went back to Fairpoint and asked more questions and became more familiar with their strategy. It made more and more sense to me.
I spoke with Gene Johnson a few times and determined (for me) that he was a straight shooter who I could trust when he told me something.
I like the plan Fairpoint has laid out and while aggressive, I believe those numbers can be achieved.
Around this time, the examiner's report came out against the sale, but with recommendations if the PUC Commissioners decided to go forward.
Part of that, as you know, was a 600 million dollar price drop, pretty close to what my friends on Wall Street told me would make them comfortable if this was their deal.
I then called a rather well-known financial analyst who is know to be pretty conservative about big investments. This individual said there are significant risks in this deal. I asked this person, "what happens if the sale goes through and then Fairpoint fails?"
The answer was one I had already known. Someone else will buy it up, it is a utility and they do not go away.
Finally, I asked, "Would you do this deal?" The answer was, "With a few sleepless nights, but yes I would, the pluses outweigh the minuses, particularly with the price drop."
This person also said the tax break for Verizon is a hidden gem and gives Verizon even more room to move if necessary.
That is the path I walked in coming to my conclusion. I recongnize that there are risks. Fairpoint is a much smaller company than Verizon, but I don't sweat that issue. I think they have a good strategy and I am confident that they will be aggressive in pursuing new customers and retaining the current base.
Look, I have said it here, in my column, in my newsletter and countless times on the air, I am NOT a financial analyst. Because of that, I ask people who deal with this stuff day in and day out for their opinion.
This is a complex deal and while not perfect, has a path that can lead to success.
The frustrating part of this for me where your side is concerned is you refuse to recognize this could work. Yes, I know change is hard and Verizon's financial size provides a good deal of security for your jobs and your pension, but you must take a least a little of an objective look and realize that this may work out fine for everyone.
There are risks, no question. This is a big jump for Fairpoint, should it be approved, however, they have done 32 of these deals (yes, I know ... none this large) and they are still moving forward.
If the PUC denies it, then I will assume they saw something I didn't.
If the boys providing the money pull out, then I will assume they determined the risk is too great.
I can't argue with those two points, because one is charged with making an objective decision based on what is best for Maine and the other is providing THEIR money to make the deal happen.
Does this make it any clearer about how I came to my conclusion?
Yes, it makes it much clearer (and thanks for not being snide)
Our disagreement is still this: you believe that the possible rewards outweigh the risks; I believe the actual risk outweigh the small possibility of reward.
Fairpoint's plan is, as you've said, aggressive. Their numbers and projections are above industry standards, and in some cases are above the best they've ever done. They don't have a single projection that falls in "average" range. It appears that they think that by providing DSL to barely 90,000 people is going to shatter records. It's not.
Even though they will have more customers and more money coming in they will lose customers at a rate much higher than they are accustomed to (due to competing in non-rural areas against better positioned, better companies.) No where in their projections do they plan for this. That should be at least a little alarming to you, because in order to install everything they've said they're going to install they need money. That money is supposedly provided for in their projections, but in reality they will never reach most of them. So where does the money come from?
This is why I disagree with your statement "this is why your side refuses to see this may work".
I believe in a perfect Fairpoint universe (and God help if there is one)everything they've assumed will happen will. But the way I see it, nothing has really went their way throughout this whole process. They completely underestimated the opposition to this deal (not only from employees, but from regular citizens).
When it comes down to it, you and I will always be fundamentally opposed on this deal. But not for the exact reasons you think. For me it is not a union thing, it is a technology and trust issue. You have the trust part down, but you don't seem to understand the technology end of it; I do, so that's why I don't trust them.
I wish you would see, or at least acknowledge some of the facts I've put forth, but you don't. I know you want me to believe in Fairpoint and the PUC's but I don't. Only the PUC's and time will tell..
After reading your previous post which led me to better explain my reasonings, I got a better understanding of you.
I want you to understand something.
Some, I repeat some .. not all, of your union brothers have treated my family in a pretty boorish manner.
I understand that this comes with the job I do. If I open my mouth and state what I believe in a forceful manner with a large pulpit, it is not going to be well recieved by a segement of the population.
I understand how that works, but I DO NOT expect it to translate to my family, who are innocent in this and other discussions.
I have been an anti-union guy all of my adult life.
When these boorish actions occur, it only drives that dislike deeper.
As some of your brothers joined this board, they joined it with ridicule, not conversation ... as is their right.
When attacked, I attack back as oppposed to seeking a better understanding of where you were coming from because I am already pre-disposed to my animosity toward the IBEW.
You, however, once we finally got to the meat of it, appear to be doing what I am doing ... determine what is best for all.
I respect that which is why I responded with a journal of how I got to where I am.
I know this deal presents risks. This is a big jump for Fairpoint, a quantum leap if you will .... but I believe the positives outweigh the risks in terms of Maine's future.
Yes, there will be stiff competition from a vast array of new technology, some of it we probably cannot yet imagine, even though it will be here in the next decade.
At the end of the day, this is my question to myself.
Are we better off with the status quo, or do we take a chance and make a move forward?
After weighing the risks, I think the chance to move forward is in Maine's best interest.
the last post came under my wife's google account.
This is Ray and I wrote the above post.
Sorry, I did not realize she was the one logged in.
Well, I guess that about ends this conversation then, don't you think? I'm glad we ended it on a decent note.
Hopefully, when all is said and done, everyone will be happy.
Take care
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